Donna Hanson is a global productivity and technology speaker and trainer – and in today’s episode you’ll hear the heart behind the scenes, and her heart of service and support. We also explore the joy of connecting, the adventure of not knowing the difference you’re making and who is around the corner. Possibilities await. Keep sharing your good work with the world.
Find Donna here
www.donnahanson.com
www.primesolutions.net.au
Listen below, on Apple Podcasts or Spotify or find more platforms here.
Kerrie Phipps 0:00
Hello, Kerrie Phipps here with the connect with confidence podcast. Today I’m so excited to be introducing you to Donna Hanson who I think I may have only met once face to face. Hello, Donna.
Donna Hanson 0:13
Oh, hello, how are you? I think you might be right. Although, these days when you in a virtual world It feels like you know, everybody after five minutes on zoom or whatever platform.
Kerrie Phipps 0:24
Yeah, and sometimes we have to think about like, where have we actually had a conversation but I would never forget First conversation.
Donna Hanson 0:30
I’m interested to hear this.
Kerrie Phipps 0:32
Yeah, well, I thought I’d be interested to know what you remember because things do change in our memories over time. But I know where we were, we were walking down this walkway into a restaurant in Singapore at Clark key, I believe, but it was after the HR summit. And I had just introduced Brian Tracy to two and a half thousand people. And it was a fantastic afternoon. It was a very big day. But I was walking with Rob Salisbury, a friend who’s based in Singapore. And I’m pretty sure he said, Kerrie, you’ve got to make Donna. And then you were suddenly there. And you went, oh Tarran told me that I had to meet you. Is that correct? Or was it the other way around?
Donna Hanson 1:16
Oh, I don’t know. My recollection was actually meeting you at the sun Tech Center, which is where the conference was, but it was definitely in Singapore. It was definitely at the HR summit. And I don’t recollect Rob Salisburry but you could be quite right because Rob Salisburry was at that conference. And I remember Terran Dean introducing us and going you need to make Kerrie so the the actual semantics of the introduction, but we’re both on pointers to exactly when that happened.
Kerrie Phipps 1:48
Yes, yes. I think we talked all the way to the from the center to dinner, and it was just a small dinner for this speakers, I think from the HR summit and Brian Tracy Which was really lovely. But that week was a blur of dinners every night. But yeah, I remember walking and talking with you, and having these mutual friends that had told both of us like you guys have got to connect. So that was really fun. And, and it just made me think that often we don’t know who is in our world, just around the corner. We don’t know who we’re about to connect with, who might already be looking forward to connecting with us. But there’s always someone out there who’s, you know, maybe been listening to a podcast like this or reading your book or talking to their friends and they say, oh, I’ve got to introduce introduce you to Donna or have you seen, you know, the great work that Donna is up to in the world. And I find it’s really useful to remind people of that because sometimes you just think I don’t have any new clients or, you know, my life’s boring or there’s, there’s nothing new happening. It’s like, just around the corner.
Donna Hanson 2:51
Sometimes you just actually do not realise the impact that you’re having on other people, particularly in the circles we move. As professional speakers, trainers and educators and I know I have a heavy social media presence and I’m very much that education sharing, serving, getting my audience to think and yes, sometimes it just, I just get hit across the face with just my goodness at how how connected I can be to some people and people that have been in my world that come back after so many years like, in in April, I had somebody who had attended a program I delivered for a national client in Australia. And we’ve connected on LinkedIn and and she was early on in her career. She moved to another organization and now she moved to the third organization. We tried in the second organization to work together. But in April, she reached out to me and she said, I’m looking for help with I think that we’re looking for some online courses. Do you have some things and Yes, but let’s have a conversation because, you know, there’s maybe something else. We had a conversation and and now, you know, just like that we’ve ignited a business relationship. We’re both growing and learning from each other. I’m helping her in her new role, position herself as, as somebody who knows people and can bring in expertise. So, you know, that’s just amazing. And then I’ve got other people that maybe they’ve been on my email newsletter for 15 years, they go, I saw you at this one presentation. And I can take my mind back to that exact presentation. And I go, Yes, I know. And people will get into my work. And then all of a sudden, they’ll just go we’ve been watching you, we’ve seen the information you put out and I’m very service focused. you know, I want to share I want to help people because that’s innately who I am. And and I think when you do that, when timings right that people come.
Kerrie Phipps 5:02
Yeah, that’s a really powerful reminder, Donna and I love that you’ve shared that connecting with an attitude of service. How can I? How can I serve? Who can I connect people with? Like, it’s just the joy of doing life together. And it’s also like no strings attached. You don’t know when you’ll meet up with these people again, or, you know,
Donna Hanson 5:23
it’s how can I make your life better, and in turn, knowing that when I do that, when I give from my heart, that that will come back and it doesn’t necessarily have to come back directly from the person. It could come back from somewhere else. So it might be that I’m talking to you about something, and you don’t have a need right now, but you’re talking to somebody else, and you go, Oh, you need to talk to Donna. So a bit like our introductions with Rob, and with Terran saying you need to speak up to speak with Donna and Donna, you need to speak with Terry so it’s it’s serendipitous. Really?
Kerrie Phipps 6:00
Yeah, and it’s beautiful. So shout outs and lots of love to Terran in Queensland and Rob in Singapore. Beautiful connectors. So Donna, I am thrilled to be having this conversation because I see you doing amazing things in the world. And I, I just noticed that you said 15 years ago. So I wonder when did you start your business?
Donna Hanson 6:24
I started my business 22, 20, 24 years ago, I hit
Kerrie Phipps 6:29
Wow,
Donna Hanson 6:30
minute. Um, would you like to know the story, Kerrie?
Kerrie Phipps 6:34
I would indeed.
Donna Hanson 6:36
So, you know, I don’t tell a lot of people but you know, I’ll share this with you and just like the vast audience of listeners. So I was working as a personal assistant to a managing director of a national company. And I got asked to join a computer hardware company as their training manager.
Kerrie Phipps 7:00
Okay,
Donna Hanson 7:01
and I was seven months pregnant and of course what do you do seven months under here? Why not?
Kerrie Phipps 7:07
I can do anything?
Donna Hanson 7:08
Yeah so I can carry this baby Of course I can I you know, I can change jobs as well. So I went to this new job seven months pregnant, set up a training division. So this company sold computer hardware and software and and I established the training division set up a joint venture with the Master Builders Association of Victoria where we put computers in their, in their buildings to do programs just for members. You know, after a couple of years and and, you know, we’re working for that company, the boom bust of the 90s with all the tech boom and stuff, the company went into receivership. And this was just before n set went under and and so there was no such thing as that. They called it the GIS scheme at the time and it protected employees entitlements when companies went into liquidation or receivership. So I basically lost everything about $10,000 worth of entitlements. Well, I had a two year old son and my marriage was breaking down. So what did I do? Kerrie? I decided I’d start my own business
Kerrie Phipps 8:16
as you do. Wow,
Donna Hanson 8:21
yeah, I’d go out and I went out and contract trained. And that’s how I started.
Kerrie Phipps 8:26
Wow, so that must have been a real journey in growing in confidence. And I don’t know about you, but as a young mom, my confidence took a hit sometimes. So how did you put yourself forward? What was the conversation in your head?
Donna Hanson 8:42
Um, look, it was a time where I realized, I don’t think you know, hey, you have one of those moments. I don’t know if you’ve ever seen the movie with Gwyneth Paltrow sliding doors and it shows the two different paths she could have taken depending on the choices she made. So when I look back now I recognize I had a sliding doors moment then where I had a decision to make. And the decision I made would determine which fork in the road I’d go down. So the choice I had was to choose to be a victim of what was what had happened to me that, you know, I would split from my husband, I had a two year old, I didn’t have a job. All of this some internal dialogue, or the secondary one was I could use this to control my own destiny.
Kerrie Phipps 9:34
Yeah.
Donna Hanson 9:34
And I chose to be
Kerrie Phipps 9:36
Yeah.
Donna Hanson 9:37
And and I decided, No, nobody was going to tell me ever again that I didn’t have a job. If I was not going to be successful, I was going to live and die by my own sword to use a metaphorical term. And so that’s that’s the choice I made that it wasn’t two years later that I was able to sit back and go, Wow, I didn’t know Realize the the importance of that, that choice. You just make a decision in the moment because for me, it wasn’t just about what I needed. I needed to provide for my child as well.
Kerrie Phipps 10:14
Yeah, that’s really powerful. And I’d be interested to know how you would have rated your confidence before you made that decision. And afterwards, because sometimes we take a leap. And then we’re confident because we did it. We go, Oh, my gosh, I’ve done this. Look, look how far I’ve come. Sometimes we might step into something because we have the confidence to do it. Where would you say you were at?
Donna Hanson 10:31
At that time? I don’t think I consider that because I think when your backs to the wall and you’re in sort of a point of survival mode, I don’t think you get a moment to think about that.
Kerrie Phipps 10:43
Yeah,
Donna Hanson 10:43
I think it’s survival.
Kerrie Phipps 10:46
Yeah.
Donna Hanson 10:46
And that and I think confidence about whether you can or can’t do something. Well, for me anyway, it was totally lost or non existent when I had to make a decision that was going to To keep me keep me going, I had to I had to do something to survive. But having said that, I know when I started to contract trying, after the company went into receivership, I was very strategic.
Kerrie Phipps 11:16
Yeah.
Donna Hanson 11:16
And I investigated how much organizations were paying their trainers and I positioned my right $50 a day less.
Kerrie Phipps 11:26
Okay.
Donna Hanson 11:26
And so I was going in at the massive daily training fee. Now you are sitting down aren’t you Kerrie?
Kerrie Phipps 11:34
I am sitting down.
Donna Hanson 11:35
I used to get paid $200 a day.
Kerrie Phipps 11:40
Wow,
Donna Hanson 11:41
and I’ll remember that, you know, my, my parents would look after my son. I’d traveling to the city of Melbourne on the train and deliver a training program for this some national training company, and I come back home and meet my parents and my son at the station with his huge smile on my face for the the joy that I shared with people and how I’ve been able to help them with technology. And I remember saying to my mom and my dad, you know, as they handed over my son and I got ready to do head home to my house, I remember saying to them $200 a day, how does it get better than this? And of course it does. But you know, all of that is commensurate with the knowledge, the expertise. Since then, I’ve developed so much more knowledge and expertise. I have a degree in adult education and training and development. I’ve got all sorts of certifications, etc. and a huge body of work that supports the years of experience that I’ve had.
Kerrie Phipps 12:45
Yeah, yeah. So I’m just wondering, for context, you know, people who have a business know that $200 a day to run a business with business expenses is a very different thing to someone being employed at $200 a day.
Donna Hanson 12:58
Absolutely.
Kerrie Phipps 12:59
And back you know, how many years ago was that? 20? Something? So sometimes we get a bit lost in the numbers because it means different things to different people in different countries
Donna Hanson 13:07
Think of it like $20 an hour.
Kerrie Phipps 13:10
Yeah, yeah.
Donna Hanson 13:11
You know, am
Kerrie Phipps 13:11
for we’re talking Aussie dollars, not American. Yeah. The so when would you say have been your, your least confident and most confident seasons or times in your life?
Donna Hanson 13:28
Okay, it depends on whether you’re talking about as an adult, or as a child. Because as an adult, I think my most vulnerable time was that very first day, where are you know, the excitement of getting, you know, an engagement to be able to go in and do some training and get that $200 a day like that was massive. But when the day actually comes, you know, you’re almost wetting your pants you going, Oh my god, am I going to be able to do this? And now how am I going to go And you know, I’ve done all this preparation. And so you know, you do get the confidence crisis.
Kerrie Phipps 14:07
Yeah.
Donna Hanson 14:08
And that’s when I don’t necessarily like the term fake it till you make it. But I know that probably about 10 years ago, a colleague of mine, I’m part of the professional Speakers Association. I know you’re part of the Asian professional Speakers Association. I was talking to a colleague of mine about the fact that he gained his CSP accreditation certified speaking professional. And I said to him, I said, Look, I really want that, you know, I want to work hard for it. Well, you know, these are the things that I need to do. And he said to me, Don, he said, You already are a CSP. You just need to do the paperwork.
Kerrie Phipps 14:50
Yeah.
Donna Hanson 14:51
though. I believe a lot of the time when we question our capability in doing something that’s just a grounding piece that reminds us You know, don’t get too big for your boots, which I think is, you know, an Australian ism, isn’t it the tall sort of syndrome? You know, and I’ve talked to people in America about that, and they say, Oh, you need to get over it and you go, you know, it’s a bit. It’s, it’s innate, like a culture, you can’t. It’s just something that’s that I think, humility and being humble, are all of those sorts of things. They’re Aussie traits, typical Aussie traits. Of course, there’s always exceptions to that. But you get what I mean.
Kerrie Phipps 15:34
Yeah. Because we don’t see the contribution that we make. We don’t see the impact necessarily, that we’re having. And, you know, we judge ourselves more harshly than others generally, do.
Donna Hanson 15:46
We just make the contribution because that’s who we are. Yeah, we don’t question. You know, is this a strategic thing that I should be doing what take me towards achieving my key performance indicators or generating millions of dollars from my business. You know, we do it from a place of service. And we recognize that if we do it properly and we’re relatively strategic, the money should follow. And I mean, there’s a difference between just doing stuff and, you know, not commercializing it, which is challenging to do when you if you’re not business savvy or not used to running your own business, it’s easy to just do stuff for nothing. And then, you know, you’ll end up with more month than money. Isn’t that what?
Kerrie Phipps 16:33
That’s refreshing to hear you speak like that, Donna? Because, you know, I’ve just felt that I just want to serve the world. And yes, I can charge for my time. However, it’s not part of a strategic plan. I don’t have KPIs, I just, I just look for people that I can serve. And then how do we work together? Do we collaborate? You know, do I coach do i do training do I? What How can they say And yeah, it just kind of works out.
Donna Hanson 17:03
Absolutely. And and I’m, I know, my exposure over the years to different sales and marketing mentors. I’m very careful in who I choose to take advice from
Kerrie Phipps 17:15
Yes,
Donna Hanson 17:16
because there’s plenty of people out there who want to give you advice, and a lot of them are not very good. But I remember one of my mentors, Alan Weiss, yeah, who is known as the million dollar consultant. He, he said, there’s nothing wrong with saying this is how much I charge this is how much I want. This is how much I deserve. It’s in return for my contribution to the success of whatever it is you’re doing. It’s a fair and equitable return on my contribution. And when you come from that place of service and and, you know, he says you should talk to as many people as you can, because if People don’t know, what you do, how come they happen they buy from you and how can you serve them. And he’s favorite one that I tell myself every now and then when I get a bit stuck, and I don’t want to reach out to people just to see what’s happening. He says, if you don’t blow your own horn, there is no music.
Kerrie Phipps 18:20
That’s great. I love it. Right. And as you assign that, I thought, also they don’t know how to refer you or who to refer you to. Absolutely. And I think, yeah, sometimes when we connect with people, we share what we’re doing, not with an expectation to grab them as a client. I think sometimes you feel that a networking function, don’t you that somebody’s telling you about their business and they’re trying to grab you and you’re like, I don’t, I don’t need to buy your stuff right now. But if they approach you with no strings attached and just share with joy, what they’re doing. If you don’t feel like you’re the next client, you might go You know what, I love hearing what you’re doing because I think I know somebody who would love to work with you.
Donna Hanson 18:57
Or another approach I find can be Sometimes if you’re just not sure that there’s a values alignment with people, I’ll often go in and I’ll be coming from the place of why should we not work together? Hmm. You know, why am I not the best fit? Because I’d rather disqualify somebody is a potential client before I actually start working with them then after I start working with them, and they cause me trouble. So I call this the Zappos principle. Okay, though, have you heard of a company called Zappos in the US at all?
Kerrie Phipps 19:33
Yeah, the shoes.
Donna Hanson 19:35
Yes, yes. Well, actually, they sell more than shoes, interestingly enough, Kerrie? Yes. And if you’re ever ever in the States, can I recommend that to up so they have a tour of their headquarters and it is awesome. Well, they’re known for their customer service, and they actually incentivize this staff on induction six, six It wakes induction, and they incentivize them to leave the business, okay, at the end of that induction period, because what they figure is if you take the money to leave the business, I think at one point it was 2000 US dollars or something? Well, they figure if you took the money, then you weren’t the sort of person they wanted in your organization and spending $2,000 to get you out of the business is much cheaper than dealing with all the collateral damage of a negative person, negative mindset in the workplace. So it’s really interesting concept.
Kerrie Phipps 20:34
Yeah, but if people feel really aligned to the business, and they want to stay for the long term, they’ll be like, No, I don’t want that to thousand dollars. I want this. I want to be part of this team.
Donna Hanson 20:43
I want to be Batman and family. They see themselves as a family and it’s just such an awesome story. And I mean, if I have a look of holding up my computer monitor is the book and I’m looking that when you go on the tour you pay like 30 or $40 It’s its own profit center the two of us Yeah. But generates money and and so we went in 2011. Now I know that is because every single person that goes on the tour gets a copy of the previous year’s yearbook. Actually, it’ll be 2000.
Kerrie Phipps 21:15
Ohh that’s cool.
Donna Hanson 21:16
So they do this ebook, and it’s about that thick. It’s hard cover for cover. Now, sorry, when I say that, for all of our listeners, you know, it could be the size of a dinosaur. It’s really only about an inch thick.
Kerrie Phipps 21:29
It’s a decent size book,
Donna Hanson 21:30
decent sized book with color pages of all the philanthropic things the business did during the course of the year, all the, you know, monumental occasions that they have so many documents so much. And the whole idea is you’re part of this broader family. And the key here is engagement, retention, and customer service. So when people are engaged and inspired and connected and they happy confident well, then that’s gonna reflect in the Atwood experience. Alan White says, you never see happy customers and unhappy staff.
Kerrie Phipps 22:09
That’s true.
Donna Hanson 22:10
One is the flow on effective the other if you’ve got a an environment where people aren’t comfortable, they’re not happy. They’re feeling threatened. That’s going to come out in their interactions with customers, it’s going to come out in their confidence.
Kerrie Phipps 22:23
Yeah. Gosh, darn it. I feel like we could just talk forever. But
Donna Hanson 22:28
That’s just me or?
Kerrie Phipps 22:29
just know that, you know, I love a good conversation. And, you know, we’ve seen each other on a lot of online meetings since we met in I think it was 2017. It would have been 2017 when we met in Singapore was, but I’ve never really heard your story and had a one on one conversation with you since then. So I know crazy. This is really apart from that dinner the first time that the two of us have sat down and had a chat. So thank you so much. So I would like to get you to come back. I’m sure that that everyone listening is like yeah, we could hear more from Donna. So
Donna Hanson 22:59
okay.
Kerrie Phipps 23:00
I know I’ve got more questions I would love to ask you. And you know, being a productivity specialist I know that you can help us with, even how do we connect more effectively online, we don’t want to get lost in social media, and then go where the day go. So that’s just one thing. Lots of things I could talk about. But just reflecting on this call, what do you feel has been most useful for you to share? or what have you got out of this? Or? Because sometimes you hear yourself think, don’t you as you share a conversation like this? Is there anything that you’d like to say to wrap up on this conversation?
Donna Hanson 23:31
I just think that sometimes if I’d be a little philosophical, yeah. The power comes from within, not from without, yeah, you aren’t without anything. You have everything you need. Yes. You just need to tap into it. And you need to find the way that to tap into it. That’s right for you. Because what’s right for me and what’s right for you Kerry and what’s right for all that all your listeners. It’s gonna be totally different. So you’ve got to tap into who you are, and believe that you have all that you need. You just need to unleash the potential. Do I sound like Tony Robbins? I hope not.
Kerrie Phipps 24:13
No, you sound like Joana Hanson and it’s wonderful. But you know, I do you want to encourage people to have better conversations with themselves and others. And what you’ve talked about there is having a better conversation with yourself and realizing what is within you. And I really appreciate you sharing that story of the beginning of your business and you know, such a vulnerable time but you found that power within yourself to move forward and to create something magnificent and now you’re teaching people all over the world which we didn’t even cover, so I’m going to get you back. Thanks so much for your time, Donna,
Donna Hanson 24:45
no problem. great to talk to you.
